Posts by Joe Grundy

so be warned.. the body of elders received word that an unmarried ministerial servant, age 20, had been seen fondling a younger male bible student, age 14. the ministerial servant himself had been studying with the boy.

the ministerial servant was a quiet, timid brother.

Joe Grundy

Just read through this thread and here's my take on it. Not as a dub or ex-dub (I never was) but as an ex-cop (30 years and far too much experience with abuse cases).

If I've read it right, the JW was somewhat 'mentally challenged' or whatever the current politically-correct term is. Certainly not the sharpest knife in the drawer. So the first question is: why would he be given a position of responsibility in the organisation? I have nothing against those who are 'mentally challenged' but IME most 'worldly churches' would allocate a fairly minor task such as giving out hymn (sorry, song) books and everyone is happy.

Secondly, it sounds as if the Mom already had concerns about her son and perhaps - just perhaps - she was worried that her son had seduced this less than 'firing on all cylinders' JW. Maybe it had happened before.

Thirdly, none of this impacts on or lessens the reaction of WTBTS as reported. 'Dreadful' is my reaction to it - far more concerned with legalistic issues than protecting the vulnerable individuals concerned.

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Motorcylces

by harleybear in

okay i thought it would be fun to find out who of you all ride bikes and i don't mean bicycles.

we have 2 harley road kings.

what do you ride??

Joe Grundy

Sorry, no good at posting appropriate size pics!

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Motorcylces

by harleybear in

okay i thought it would be fun to find out who of you all ride bikes and i don't mean bicycles.

we have 2 harley road kings.

what do you ride??

Joe Grundy

Mine is a Honda CX 500C - 1981, US spec, imported to UK 1992 (ish);

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JWsurvey.org publishes article on Anonymous - and offers evidence that the Society HAS a child molester database

by cedars in

it's late in my part of the world, so i'll keep this brief!.

i've just published an article on the attack by anonymous on the watch tower society.

a link to the article is below:.

Joe Grundy

Cedars: Good article.

As you probably know, any database in the UK holding personal information must be registered with the Information Commissioner (formerly Data Protection Registrar). The registration shows from whom information is collected, for what purpose, and with whom it can be shared (other than under legal compulsion).

I just did a quick search re JWs to see if I could find thw WTBTS registration for UK HQ, but not knowing the official titles used was unsuccessful.

Here, however, is one JW body's entry: http://www.ico.gov.uk/ESDWebPages/DoSearch.asp?reg=5554166

Someone who is more au fait than me with official titles may be able to find more.

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WT Q&A Study Method

by leaving_quietly in

for years, i've never understood why we read a paragraph, ask a question, and then recite what we just read in the paragraph, and at the wt study, it's an hour long period of severe boredom because, well, how many times can we recite the same stuff over and over?

even new ones who come in have been baffled at this method of teaching.

i have a theory, though.. however, i just read the "what is sacred service?

Joe Grundy

I only ever attended a KH 'Bible Study' once - in Cyprus, at the invitation of my JW neighbours. I was interested, in an atheist academic sort of way, and I knew that it would get them some bonus points (which they probably lost when I popped outside for a cigarette).

I was somewhat taken aback ('gobsmacked' in the vernacular) at the procedure. The guy at the front called up an old guy to read the paragraph from the magazine, which he did stumblingly (this poor old bugger lived in the same apartment complex as me and later committed suicide by drowning himself in our pool after he learned he had terminal cancer). The set questions were asked, and the set answers were given. I had independent knowledge of the bible on the subject discussed but was not allowed to speak (maybe because I was wearing jeans?). An old dear in the congregation piped up with a comment about 'blessed Pastor Russell' but she was soon hushed.

This was not a 'bible study' in any accepted sense, it was the repeated regurgitation of propaganda, and I agree with other posters' opinions that it was a mass mind-control exercise. Thinking back it reminded me very much of Hitler's Nuremburg rallies, where the crowd was encouraged to join in with 'Sieg Heil'.

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When did the religion become a cult?

by Hermano in

am i wrong in believing it was rutherford who took the religion from strange to cult?

under russell they had some strange beliefs but strange beliefs don't make a cult.

wasn't it rutherford who established and reinforced the hierarchichal structure and demanded absolute loyalty?.

Joe Grundy

I never was a JW but have read a lot of their history on this and other sites. There are several definitions of 'cult' and it seems to be a fine line between 'wacky religions' and 'cults'.

My gut reaction is that a 'cult' imposes an inordinate degree of control over its adherents, with consequences and sanctions for those who fail to comply. JWs certainly fits that.

My first reaction to the OP's question was that in its early days, Russell's 'break away' or 'spin off' from the Millerites et al was just a 'wacky religion' started at a time and place which seemed to foster so many 'wacky religions' and that it was under Rutherford that the 'control' issue became major (possibly to keep 'his' JWs separate from the original mainstream IBSA).

Now, I'm not so sure. The more I read of Russell and the machinations of his early collaborators the more I come to the view that this was a 'cult' from the beginning.

BTW, I find it interesting how time and history tends to lend credence and respectability to wacky religions. Joseph Smith's new religion was obviously nutty (at best), Russell's pyramidology survived and flourished, and to be honest Saul/Paul's new religion based on visions is pretty wacky on any objective analysis. But they have survived, and as time and distance cloud their origins they gain (in some quarters at least) a degree of respectability. With the advent of the internet and the huge availability of information to all who wish to find it, I don't think it would be so easy to start a new wacky religion/cult now. (Edited to add: unless of course, the cult/religion proscribed independent research - ring any bells?)

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